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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 20, 2012 4:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: who do you think Donna is singing about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRJ5_u-f6Vg

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Poster: Pig Street ! Date: Dec 20, 2012 5:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

http://www.dead.net/song/sunrise

or "The song was named after the daughter of Grateful ...

or....

This post was modified by Pig Street ! on 2012-12-20 13:44:22

Attachment: Donna-Keith.jpg

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Poster: Skobud Date: Dec 20, 2012 9:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

See, now this is where I have no choice but to chime in because of how I feel about this song. Picture if you will, Sunrise playing instead of "Moonraker" for the opening credits of the movie instead of the awful title song, with Donna floating and flipping around in front the sun and moon at the same time in space:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt3oQN0cAv0

Donna could have been a Bond girl AND sang the theme. Too Bad my idea is only 30+ years late..

I mean Carly Simon sang "Nobody Does it Better" in "For Your Eyes Only"..It's pretty well known I am no fan of Sunrise by any means either, but shit - Jerry was an extra in Close Encounters so anything was possible at the time...Just Sayin'

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Dec 20, 2012 6:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

In earlier, naive years, I thought Donna was a Jesus-freak, a term used somewhat loosely in the 70s, because of this song. Now it just seems more mundane - from the annotated GD site:

This song is generally acknowledged to be about Rex Jackson, a Grateful Dead staff member, after whom the Rex Foundation is named. Jackson died in October, 1976, so it's likely this song was written in his memory, though not overtly.

edit: "freak" was not meant as derogatory - it just described the scene one was into.

This post was modified by unclejohn52 on 2012-12-20 14:37:34

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 20, 2012 6:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

well I think she loves Jesus then and now. Imo that does not make you a freak.
My take on her leaving the GD was that her heart was not into singing for the druggie-freaks that polluted the deadheads. She was happier in the Heart of GOLD band. God bless Donna.

I believe she was singing about Jesus. True Christians are some of the kindest people I know, because I can seperate the hypocrites from the ones that live it.

I'm curious, since Donna wrote the song, what did/does she say about it? That would seal the deal, no matter what you or I think

This post was modified by cosmicharIie on 2012-12-20 14:18:12

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Poster: Pat Buzby Date: Dec 20, 2012 9:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

In the interviews I've read with Donna she said she wasn't religious until after Keith died.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 20, 2012 6:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

Loving the Dead doesn't necessarily make you a Dead Freak either, but those folks are out there too.

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 20, 2012 6:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

of course not! though I love the GD - lol

I've been to enough shows and deadlots to know that fer sure!
The freaks were OD'n and storming the gates in the 90's.

But then again, I never saw any violence at any 70's or 80's GD show, except for some uncool bad cops. Even the HA were mostly cool

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 20, 2012 7:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

"I can seperate the hypocrites from the ones that live it."

What do you think Jesus would say about guns?

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Dec 20, 2012 7:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: WWJD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taih2zUOmIM

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 20, 2012 7:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

no guns in those days but his Apostles were armed with swords. Imo, Jesus would allow people to protect their loved ones and not just thru prayer. He always addressed the evil demonic spirit that was the base cause of evil actions.

Jesus also used a whip to clear the greedy moneytaker hypocrites out of the temple and overturned their tables.

I love the "what would Jesus say or do" stuff. Most people that throw down that rap probably care less about what Jesus would say. They have this "hippy Jesus" mindset.

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Poster: Pig Street ! Date: Dec 20, 2012 7:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

How many Head's, Freaks or whomever would lay their life down for your eternity?

Attachment: image012.jpg

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 20, 2012 7:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

Jesus allowed his Apostles to carry the "guns" of those day's, a sharp-ass sword. I ask you why??

read on >>

Luke 22:47 While he was still speaking, suddenly a crowd appeared, and the man named Judas, one of the twelve, was leading them. He walked up to Jesus to kiss him. 22:48 But Jesus said to him, “Judas, would you betray the Son of Man with a kiss?” 22:49 When those who were around him saw what was about to happen, they said, “Lord, should we use our SWORDS?” 22:50 Then one of them struck the high priest’s slave, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus said, “Enough of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him. 22:52 Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders who had come out to get him, “Have you come out with swords and clubs like you would against an outlaw? 22:53 Day after day when I was with you in the temple courts, you did not arrest me. But this is your hour, and that of the power of darkness!”

This post was modified by cosmicharIie on 2012-12-20 15:36:37

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 20, 2012 7:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

I don't really want to get into a discussion about bible passages, but how exactly is that an endorsement of swords or the use of violence? Seems very clear that he is specifically rebuking them resorting to violence in the first place. Or do you have a different interpretation?

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 20, 2012 7:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

my take is that they were defending him but he had a higher purpose to allow himself to die for our sins. To me it's very cool that he healed the slaves ear that one of his Apostles cut off. You didn't answer my question, why did Jesus even allow his diciples to carry weapons?

hey, I'd like to know that one myself. My take is that self-defense was ok by him. Personally I hate violence but don't take away my right to defend myself against evil mo-foo's. ANY weapon thats not being used by a person just sets there gathering dust. My uncle had a rifle mounted over his fireplace for 30 years after WW2. He never used it, it just sat there - damnedest thing! That gun refused to shoot anyone! Bad gun! haha

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Poster: BornEasement Date: Dec 20, 2012 8:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

What about Matthew 26?

52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

Nice to see this stuff turning up here! I guess Catholic School (don't worry... I learned Evolution too) wasn't as useless as I thought...

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 20, 2012 8:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

Exactly. I'm not even a religious person, but it really irks me to see people twisting the words of the bible to suit their lifestyles. Even in the previous one, note that it doesn't mention "apostles." It simply says, "those who were around him." And even if they were his apostles, he clearly is not on board with their use of weapons.

It's not enough to just read. One also must comprehend the meaning of the words.

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Poster: BornEasement Date: Dec 20, 2012 8:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

The comprehension is all...

Someone wise once told me that the Bible isn't a book so much as a library. Its got poetry, history, literature, romance, lyrics, and the gospels which are sort of a genre unto themselves. Picking out bits and pieces and interpreting them "literally" (whatever that means! what sense does the "literal" content of the book of Revelations make for us, pray tell??) often means picking out the bits and pieces that suit our attitudes or beliefs and ignoring the ones that complicate them. If anyone tells you that the 'literal' text of the bible is totally and irrefutably true simply point out the fact that in one gospel Christ is crucified on a different day of the week than in the other three. They can't both be 'true' in a simplistic, literal sense.

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 20, 2012 2:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

Matthew 26:52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

He knew he was born to be sacrificed, to fullfill Scriptures
I don't think he meant that if some evil nut breaks into a school, that he should not be shot...or did he?

Catholic School? ha! I went thru 8yrs of Catholic grade school + some very scary Dominican Nuns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZoZEY69QQs

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Poster: BornEasement Date: Dec 20, 2012 3:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

whoa whoa whoa....

4 yrs sisters of mercy (grade school)

4 yrs benedictine monks (boarding school)

let's not get into a catholic school pissing contest. Though thoroughly enjoyable, my last one ended only when someone confessed to sneaking vodka into st peter's basilica on the school pilgrimage to Rome. that's a basket of snakes we don't have time to open... although i will note that a benedictine monk turned me on to the dead.

I get what you mean about the evil nuts, but I think the broader point of his teachings about the last being made first and the meek inheriting the earth works both ways: those who crave power will be undone by it. A gun seems like alotta power to me.

But Christ's teachings, taken without a lot of the cultural baggage we've stuck on it since those early days, were radical. Early Christians were radicals who gave up swords and still died upon them. This nation full of "christians" would never admit it, but I think one of the toughest things to process about his expectations is that good men will always be at the mercy of evil men. Evil men, powerful men, and crazy men always have the upper hand since they aren't bound, like good folks, by humility, kindness, sympathy, and reason. I hate to say that all we can do, at the end of the day, is pray for the victims and send our love, but I think that might just be true. A war against insanity and violence in the human heart is, unfortunately, a losing battle.

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 20, 2012 4:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

holy molly - A pilgrimage to Rome? I'm impressed!(really)

You already won any pissing contest and the vodka put you over the top - haha. No doubt some priest got toasty that night. Our pilgrimage was when we were marched across the street every friday to Church for confession.

I'll admit the thou shalt not kill part is a doozey. So far I'm good on that one, unless you count birds, flies, ants and mosquito's. It sure would be a bummer if the not killing part included every living thing. I'll say that I kill critters faaaar less than in my youts. Except for the insects I mentioned, I don't have a heart to kill anything, though people who kill children would be a cause for me to go to confession. Someone religious once told me that the term kill meant murder.

I'm totally cool with the Pope's view on abortion and Capital Punishment. Not sure if I'm cool on his changing the sacrament of wine in Mass to German beer...

Well maybe if I commit to mere Chistianity, a good whipdown to kick the money makers out of a church would be OK with Jesus. After all, I'd only be following Him :)

I really dig his first miracle - hehe

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Poster: Deadhead225 Date: Dec 20, 2012 7:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

Also note that Jesus and the Almighty both seem to favor the prepared throughout both OT & NT. Check out who was chosen - criminals, murderers, loose women - I don't think possessors of weapons are doomed to hell based on that. That staff that turned into a serpent was as scary as any semi-auto!

My favorite is treat your neighbors as you would treat yourself. I pride myself on some degree of self discipline and require a lot of myself. That is always a launching point for my contemplation of that every week, day etc. when I read the Nicene Creed.

For an interesting insight check out the 'Jefferson Bible'. He puts all the gospels together in chronological order and only includes the words of Jesus as they tell them without the Gospel's own take (as much as possible).

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 20, 2012 7:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

"I love the "what would Jesus say or do" stuff. Most people that throw down that rap probably care less about what Jesus would say. They have this "hippy Jesus" mindset."

Let's just point out that it was you who brought up the subject of hypocritical Christians. Most of the times that I see "WWJD" it's on a license plate or a bumper sticker. You think those are all ironic hipsters?

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 20, 2012 8:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

I like the bumper sticker that says "Jesus, deliever me from your followers" Personally I dispise people who advertise and try to control me thru their take on Jesus.

Christianity. You either live it or stfu!

Wether I or you believe God exists or it's all BS, we'll all find out after we struggle out our final breath. It's either lights out or-or-or WOW! hehe.

I do know it's nice to be nice and to the mean evil people, "purty please, don't tread on me" ;)

Cheers!

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Poster: user unknown Date: Dec 20, 2012 10:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

Your sentiments are very similar to those of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi. "Although Hindu, Gandhi had a very close connection with Christianity and admired Jesus very much, often quoting from his favorite 'Sermon on the Mount' chapter in Mathew 5–7. When the missionary E. Stanley Jones met with Gandhi he asked him, "Mr. Gandhi, though you quote the words of Christ often, why is that you appear to so adamantly reject becoming his follower?" Gandhi replied, "Oh, I don't reject Christ. I love Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike Christ."
(from http://tinyurl.com/3oytkcx)

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 20, 2012 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

> Jesus, deliver me from your followers

Ha! True! The Church incorporate is a whore, but it's Jesus bride. He must really love us.
We are all hypocrites no matter. I suppose you can look at it as its our humanity, in all various contradictions. When people use it for their own ends it's vile, straight from the pit, but when you have a believer walking close it is a warm glow indeed. Though there is an exclusivity clause, this most beautiful aspect of what it means to be human is not thankfully, blessedly, confined to Christians.

E- And I think there is little doubt that Donna-Jean is a Christian, as she has stated.

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2012-12-20 16:55:24

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Dec 20, 2012 8:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

snow -

This works for me....I know some/many/most on this Forum think differently than I do in this area - and that's okay. That's also why I rarely ever delve into the topic of religion (or spirituality or whatever one wants to call it) in anything other than broad, non-specific generalities.

That said, I've found myself turning to these words more and more of late.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I am saved"
I'm whispering "I get lost!"
"That is why I chose this way."

When I say..."I am a Christian"
don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need someone to be my guide.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
and pray for strength to carry on.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
and cannot ever pay the debt.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
my flaws are too visible
but God believes I'm worth it.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain
I have my share of heartaches
which is why I seek His name.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I do not wish to judge.
I have no authority.
I only know I'm loved.

~ Carol Wimmer

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Poster: ice9freak Date: Dec 20, 2012 8:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

The "he" in the song is Rolling Thunder (yes, Mickey's album and Dylan's tour were also named after him), a shaman/spiritual leader who the Dead were close with, and who (if I'm not mistaken) presided over the Rex Jackson's funeral (the setting of the song).

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 20, 2012 8:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

next time, any of you who are "connected" and talk to Donna, please ask her. If she has a website or Facebook Page, I'll do the same. In my life experience, I'll trust a decent atheist, Hindu, Buddhist etc who just act normal over a bible spouting "Christian" who push their agenda.

Any Mormans or Jehova Witnesses that come to my door, get a big "not interested" or I just don't answer.

I live right next to a JW Hall - so far, no probs tho they hear a lot of GD when I'm workin the farm - lol

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Poster: Deadhead225 Date: Dec 20, 2012 7:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: who do you think Donna is singing about?

I always heard the Rex Jackson version of this story from multiple sources. We can still ask her!

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